Expert assumes impossibility of liberating Georgian territories by war Caliber.Az from Tbilisi

Caliber.Az presents an interview with Tornike Zedelashvili, Doctor of Political Sciences (Georgia). 

- What is your assessment of the current level of intergovernmental relations between Azerbaijan and Georgia?

- Diplomatic relations between Georgia and Azerbaijan are three decades old. Azerbaijan is a strategic partner of Georgia, we have active and close cooperation. There is a free trade regime between Georgia and Azerbaijan. Large investments are made by Azerbaijani companies in our country. Many projects are realized in this direction, including Baku-Supsa and Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan oil pipelines, and the Baku-Tbilisi-Erzerum gas pipeline. In addition, there is Gardabani-Samukh high voltage power line. Virtually all spheres are covered by the Azerbaijani-Georgian cooperation.

Since 2012, the trilateral format Georgia-Azerbaijan-Turkey has also been established, which includes cooperation at the level of presidents. In several regions of our country live Georgian citizens - ethnic Azerbaijanis, whose contribution to agriculture is significant. Moreover, there is a square named after Heydar Aliyev in Tbilisi, where a monument to the national leader of the Azerbaijani people has been erected. The incumbent president of Azerbaijan Ilham Aliyev is highly respected in Georgia, especially since he recently performed a great heroic deed - he returned the lost territories, I mean Karabakh. We also want to restore territorial integrity and maybe that time will come soon.

Of course, today we must take into consideration the fact that the Russian-Ukrainian relations have become very tense, for the second month in a row cities are being destroyed, people are dying. This has a negative impact on our region both economically and politically. Although nothing threatens relations between Georgia and Azerbaijan, nothing has changed in this direction. There are a number of issues that need to be solved on the political level - for example, demarcation, and delimitation. Official statements were made on this issue, and both sides made it clear that there is no problem, just that the issue should be studied by scientists. You must have understood, I mean the issue related to the Davit-Gareji monastery complex (Keshikchidag - Ed.). I think that this issue will be resolved in the near future.

- What is Georgia doing to restore its territorial integrity?

As I said, Azerbaijan has regained its territories, which is a great achievement for your country. To be honest, a lot of people didn't even expect this to happen so soon, they thought that Russia would interfere again and disrupt the process. Fortunately, the matter was resolved in your favor. However, Azerbaijan was dealing with neighboring Armenia, and we are dealing with Russia. Yes, it's clear that Russia is behind Armenia, but as we see, this time it didn't interfere. We look at the war unleashed by Russia in Ukraine, and we see that even the largest country in Europe cannot resist. Personally, I have the impression that Russia is using 20 percent of its capabilities. And if it increases the pressure? Probably, everything will be razed to the ground.

That is why I think that it is impossible to get our territories back by war. We need negotiations, diplomacy, and peace, which is a difficult issue for Russia today. We have been looking for a solution for years, but we cannot see the light at the end of the tunnel. By the way, this process is hindered by so-called Russian funding inside the country, by opposition parties, and by traitors. But, most importantly, there is no political desire on Russia's part at this stage, there is only a cascade of provocations, which has a very negative impact on our lives.

- So you see the situation in the region as explosive?

The processes in the South Caucasus did not start today. The situation here is not simple and Russia plays a very important role in it, it has created problems for many independent states. We are well aware of the basics of Russian policy, but the most unfortunate thing is that small countries are powerless to resist it. What is happening now in Ukraine has a negative impact not only on our region but on the whole world. It directly affects countries' economies and hinders important projects. Many internally displaced people are moving from Ukraine to Georgia and Azerbaijan. Some Russians, who condemn the aggression and also avoid the unbearable situation caused by the war initiated by Russia, are moving to the South Caucasus. Belarusians are also looking for salvation in our region.

- What can you say about the impact of Western anti-Russian sanctions on Georgia's economy?

Georgia has been in the forefront of imposing restrictions on Russia in various international formats. As you know, Georgian-Russian relations are very tense - 20% of our country is occupied by Russia. To tell you the truth, the path Ukraine is following today we went through twice: in 1993 and 2008. Where were the sanctions then? Where did such agitation and support come from?

Speaking about our economy, the process is underway, and the prices of gasoline, diesel fuel and food have increased significantly in Georgia, which has a negative impact on the population's income. Our economy is not as strong as European countries, they somehow have an easier time withstanding the price game. I think the current government of Georgia is coping well with the challenges. In many ways, this is a credit to Prime Minister Irakli Garibashvili.

- In your opinion, what caused the alienating between Tbilisi and Kyiv?

- I see Volodymyr Zelensky's guilt in the Russian-Ukrainian war, his entourage is staffed with Georgian criminals. These criminals were in power in Georgia until 2012, committed many crimes and are now Ukraine's top officials. This has never happened before. After that, they dare to accuse the Georgian government of not opening a second front.

First of all, what is the second front? In August 2008 did someone open fronts? Secondly, what was Ukraine guided by when it recalled its ambassador from Georgia? Zelensky did not recall his ambassador from Belarus, he recalled his ambassador from Tbilisi. Instead of apologizing to Georgia, Zelensky goes against us and hires Georgian criminals for his government. For example, the criminal Zurab Adaishvili was appointed advisor to the Prosecutor General of Ukraine. He is wanted and sentenced to prison. Mikhail Saakashvili also took refuge in Ukraine for years, and held positions in the Ukrainian government, he was sent to intervene in the situation in Georgia, but the project failed. Saakashvili thought they would bring a white horse to the presidential palace and put him on the throne. Saakashvili and his so-called adventurist friends could do a lot of bad things. The suspicion that they are ruled by Russia is not unreasonable. After the 2008 war, they handed over more than 80 strategic facilities to Moscow. Today, electricity and water in Georgia are in Russian hands.

Misinformation has been detrimental to relations between Tbilisi and Kyiv. When Irakli Garibashvili said that Georgia did not join sanctions against Russia, opposition TV channels aired a story that Irakli Garibashvili did not support Ukraine. This is a lie. Garibashvili and the people of Georgia support the Ukrainian people. Our country is in first place in terms of humanitarian aid sent to Ukraine. Georgia has joined all anti-Russian resolutions. I have said before and I repeat: there are people in the government of Ukraine, adventurers who create tension between Tbilisi and Kyiv. Especially amid the war.

Zelensky recalled the ambassador from Georgia, but not from Russia. Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba calls on Georgia to go to war. It turns out that David Arahamia is ashamed to be Georgian. Why? Because our cities are not being bombed. He should be ashamed of himself; he has only a Georgian surname and does not even know the Georgian language. Thank God the Georgian population and government understand perfectly well and analyze what and with whom we are dealing.

Look at the concert tape of Zelensky making fun of Georgia after the August 2008 war. They say Mr. Zelensky was not yet president then, so what? Wasn't he human?

- Does Georgia still intend to join NATO?

Events in Ukraine have shown that Russia will do anything. If NATO approaches its borders, it will not stop and may even use nuclear weapons. I understand the Russians - they see NATO as a threat, and they are afraid that if NATO gets closer to Russia's borders, it will lead to the collapse of the country.

As for Georgia's NATO aspirations, most of the population agrees that NATO is the way Georgia should go, this decision is not just the course of the government, it is the course of the country's population. Consequently, we want to join NATO, but there are many factors to consider. There has been talking that we would join NATO without the occupied territories if we gave up our territories, but Georgia cannot give up its territories so easily. It should be noted that membership in NATO and the European Union is determined by the Constitution of Georgia.

- Has Georgia come closer to the EU in recent years?

Of course, it has. We signed Association Agreement with the EU. Our cooperation with the European Union has deepened over the years and Georgia is still implementing political, legislative and economic reforms. After the Association Agreement, Georgia got visa liberalization, our citizens travel to EU countries without a visa, and we also have a free trade agreement, which positively affects Georgia's economy. We were supposed to apply for EU membership in 2024, but the Russian-Ukrainian war accelerated the process and Irakli Garibashvili has already signed the EU membership document. Georgia has already received a questionnaire from the EU. Georgia has never been as close to the EU as it is now.

- Is peace between Baku and Yerevan possible in the foreseeable future?

Azerbaijan returned its occupied territories, but there is still tension between Baku and Yerevan, I don't like it very much, because we are neighbors. Neither Azerbaijanis will move anywhere from the region, nor Armenians, reconciliation is necessary, there is simply no other way. I understand that many people died in this conflict, in this case, it is difficult to find a common language, but we have to try.