"Zelenskyy is to blame for the cooling of relations between Georgia and Ukraine" Caliber.Az from Tbilisi

Caliber.Az presents an interview with Doctor of Historical Sciences, Professor of Tbilisi State University Natia Pipia.

- Who, in your opinion, was the main culprit of the war in Abkhazia and South Ossetia, and what is the role of Armenians in it?

- The main culprit, of course, should be considered Russia, and the Armenians were an instrument of Russian propaganda. Russia has certain pressure levers that it uses in relation to many countries, and above all in relation to Armenia, because Yerevan is most dependent on the Kremlin and is afraid of it.

- What steps is Georgia taking to return its occupied lands?

- Georgia is aimed only at a peaceful settlement of this conflict. If our country begins to develop in accordance with European values, and when it reaches the right standard of living, and resources run out in Russia, then Abkhazians and Ossetians will want to live with Georgia more than to be part of or under the influence of Russia.

Today Georgia should develop its economy and not start any conflicts. However, if the Abkhazians and Ossetians for some reason do not want to live with us, then that's their business. But do not forget that at one time they evicted 300 thousand Georgians from these territories, who were not even given the opportunity to defend their lands. Therefore, from a legal point of view, they are, of course, wrong, I mean that the future of Abkhazia is not only for them to decide, but also for those Georgians who lived there.

- Recently, there has been a cooling of relations between Tbilisi and Kyiv, which have been strategic allies for many years. What are the reasons?

- Despite my high respect for President Zelenskyy, he is still not a top-class politician. He did not take into account some nuances, besides, he is a little impulsive about Georgia, so he is to blame for the cooling of relations between our countries.

Now everyone wants Georgia to join the war. Perhaps even the West wants it. But this is not in our interests. Georgia has chosen a peaceful way to resolve conflicts. Georgia is at the crossroads of civilizations, and it knows how to survive. We know when to fight and when to choose diplomacy.

Yes, we understand that Zelenskyy wants to enlist the support of Tbilisi and drag us into a war, but today no one, except Ukraine, is directly at war with Russia.

- How close has Georgia become to NATO and the EU?

- Georgia's pro-Western agenda has not changed in any way. Integration into the above-mentioned structures requires detailed modernization, our country has implemented all the necessary reforms in this way. In addition, from an economic point of view, Georgia is not such a backward country. President Zurabishvili's statements also clearly indicate that we want and have always wanted to become a part of Europe.

- Why do Georgian people vote for the Georgian Dream and not, for example, for Saakashvili's party?

- There are several reasons for that. Before every election, there is always 20% of voters who do not want anything to change. This 20% will always vote for the existing political establishment, i.e. for the ruling party, the Georgian Dream, and if the opposition wants to win, it should not think about this 20%.

In addition, a part of the population, which is against the United National Movement, also plays a role here. Under the proportional system, the Georgian Dream attracts 40% of the population, the United National Movement - 40%, and the remaining 20% - the remaining small parties. So the majoritarian system will have the final word, and under this system usually not parties, but persons win, i.e. the outcome will depend personally on the candidates of both parties and less on the party resource.

- Why do you think that in 1918, immediately after its formation, Armenia began to make territorial claims against its neighbors - Azerbaijan and Georgia?

- This territory was inhabited not only by Georgians but also by Armenians. Another reason is that they hoped for the support of England, while Georgia was supported by Germany and Azerbaijan by Turkey. At the end of 1918, when they started the war, Germany and Turkey were considered the losers, while England was among the winners and Armenia found the moment convenient to make a claim.

- Is the dispute over Armenian claims to Georgian churches closed?

- Yes, Armenians used to have claims, but I haven't heard about them lately. Externally, the Armenian and Georgian churches are similar, but they can be distinguished archeologically, i.e. you can easily recognize which one was built as an Orthodox church and which one was built as a Gregorian church, so it is not so difficult to solve the problem. We even manage to agree on churches with Turkey, even though it is a country with a different religion.

- What is the current situation in Samtskhe-Javakheti, which is claimed by Armenia?

- In this region, the problem was when the infrastructure was poorly developed. The population there used to be closer to Armenia, but over time they moved away from them and became closer to the Georgians.

- Will the Azerbaijanis and Armenians be able to turn the pages on the Karabakh conflict?

- They will. Both countries, and first of all Armenia, should understand that such a conflict is only in the hands of Russia, which took advantage of the situation and deployed its troops in Karabakh. We don't need them in any way. Now Russia has weakened, and it is not up to the Caucasus. Armenia should understand that it is time to forget about Russia, put an end to conflicts, and start negotiations.