"NATO is an illusion, Georgia will never get there" Mamuka Kartosia for Caliber.Az

Caliber.Az presents an interview with Doctor of Historical Sciences, Professor Mamuka Kartosia.

- What measures are the Georgian government taking today to return the country's occupied territories?

- Against the background of current events, nothing is being done yet. It is necessary to start negotiations with Russia because it is no secret that the issues of the Tskhinvali region and Abkhazia are being resolved in Moscow. We were all advised to come to an agreement with Moscow on this issue first. Much also depends on how the war in Ukraine ends, after which we will already know on what notes to speak with the Kremlin.

You can always agree, a lot depends on the government, how and from what angle to approach a certain situation.

Here, as an excellent example, we can cite the Karabakh situation, in which the brilliant policy of the Azerbaijani leadership was manifested. Baku set a goal to regain its lands and achieved its goal. Georgia should take an example from Azerbaijan. In a good sense of the word, it was the perfect setting of the successful script.

- Is peace possible between Baku and Yerevan?

- Anything is possible in this world. We need to solve all issues at a round table, we need to be able to negotiate because politics is an art.

- Why, in your opinion, in 1918, after its formation, Armenia immediately began to make territorial claims to its neighbours - Azerbaijan and Georgia?

- This happened after the collapse of the Russian Empire. After all, the Armenians did not have a state, they were resettled by Russia. Soviet Armenia was created during the Soviet Union. And that is why the Armenians began to make territorial claims to Azerbaijan and Georgia. We also had a two-week war with Armenia, they reached the border of the Red Bridge, but Georgia rejected them. Then they began to make claims against Azerbaijan. Armenians have always considered Georgian territories to be their own.

- Is there still a hotbed of Armenian separatism in the Samtskhe-Javakheti region?

- The majority of the population there are Armenians, but now the situation in this region has normalised. At first, they claimed these territories, but then our authorities settled this issue and everything got better.

- How long will Georgia have to wait for full membership in the EU and NATO?

- We have participated in all NATO operations, including the operation in Afghanistan, but the Alliance does not accept us into its ranks yet. In general, our region has always been considered a zone of influence by Russia, because it has always dominated here. That is, a lot depended on Russia. Even when we applied to join the League of Nations, we needed Russia's permission.

NATO has a number of parameters for accepting countries into its ranks, and one of them is that you do not have a conflict with your neighbours and that foreign troops are not stationed on your territory. How will we join NATO when there are Russian troops on the territory of our regions? There is a regular Russian army 40 km from Tbilisi, and we are applying to NATO? Yes, we are practically at war! In addition, the war in Ukraine has shown that NATO is not a guarantor of security. And Georgia needs such a guarantee. Therefore, I believe that NATO is an illusion, and that Georgia will never get there.

As for the EU, this may happen, but we need to prepare for it. We have to carry out a number of reforms, after which it will take time for the EU to make a decision. In February, the Patriotic Front, created on the initiative of the Patriots of Georgia party, wrote a letter to the UN and Russian President Vladimir Putin asking them to recognise us as a neutral country.

- How do you assess the cooling of relations between Kyiv and Tbilisi?

- Ukraine is very close to Georgia, we have provided significant assistance to Kyiv since the beginning of the war, accepted Ukrainian refugees, support Ukraine on all international platforms, and Georgia has joined some anti-Russian sanctions. But despite this, Ukraine is disappointed in us, it even recalled the ambassador. How can we go against Russia, because our economy depends on imports, all our products come from Russia.

- How do you assess the current level of Georgian-Azerbaijani relations?

- Historically, we have developed very friendly relations with Baku, the foundation of which was laid by Heydar Aliyev and Eduard Shevardnadze. Azerbaijan has always provided great assistance to Georgia. We are connected by a number of projects. In terms of energy, we depend on Baku and are very grateful for it. Azerbaijanis live compactly in Georgia, we used to communicate with them in Russian, but now they have fully integrated into Georgian society, and have learned Georgian. And Azerbaijanis play a significant role in the Georgian parliament.

Your government has shown the highest level of political and diplomatic relations. I am sure that Baku will fully achieve its goals because the main thing is that your country knows how to defend its interests and protect its people.